Analyzing Red Wings’ ticket sales
I read an interesting comment left below this Detroit Free Press column by Michael Rosenberg regarding the lack of sellouts at Red Wings’ playoff games. The comment said:
“Thousands of empty seats? Hmmm. Is that happening at Comerica Park and the Palace too? If not, maybe the problem is the Wings.
But if all major Motown sports franchises are showing lower attendance, it might have something to do with tens of thousands of people either leaving town or considering it. It’s hard to justify big entertainment expenses when one has neither a job nor good prospects for selling one’s home.
That got me thinking. I decided to compare the Detroit Pistons and the Detroit Red Wings in terms of ticket prices and sellouts/no sellouts. I chose to compare the Pistons and Wings because both teams play 82 regular season games. Both are popular and successful teams (each have won a championship since 2002). Both start the playoffs around the same time.
I felt that a direct comparison to the Tigers would be unfair because they have more home games and play their season during the summer when people tend to have more free time. And I didn’t include the Lions because, they’re the Lions, and people go to the games no matter what.
I have no fast conclusion, but what I found was interesting.
Arena Capacity
The Palace of Auburn Hills (the Pistons’ arena) seats 22,076 people. The Palace is the second largest NBA arena. Joe Louis Arena (the Wings’ arena) seats 20,066 individuals. So the Pistons have room for just over 2000 more people. While that may allow them to offer lower ticket prices, the difference in seats isn’t so large to disregard the stats (in my opinion).
Sellouts?
The Pistons have played two home playoff games so far this postseason (they lead the series, 3-0, by the way). They sold out in both games. The Red Wings have played four home playoff games so far (three in the first round and one in the second). They have sold out none of those games.
How did the two teams finish the regular season?
The Pistons won the Eastern Conference and clinched the number one seed. The Red Wings topped the Western Conference and also received the number one seed.
How have the teams done since 2000?
In 2000, the Pistons lost to the Miami Heat in the first round. They missed the playoffs in the following year. They made it to the Conference semifinals in 2002, but lost to Boston. The Pistons advanced to the Eastern Conference finals in 2003, but were swept by New Jersey. They won the NBA championship in 2004 over the LA Lakers. They reached the NBA finals in 2005, but lost to the Spurs. In 2006, the Pistons lost to eventual champs Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference finals. They are currently leading the first round of the 2007 playoffs. In total, the Pistons has had 7/8 playoff appearances. They reached the Eastern Conference finals twice, but lost the series. They reached the NBA finals two times with one championship in 2004.
In 2000, the Red Wings lost in the Western Conference semifinals to the Colorado Avalanche. The following year, Detroit lost to the LA Kings in the first round. In 2002, the Wings won the Stanley Cup. They were swept the following year by the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. In 2004, Detroit lost the conference semifinals to the Calgary Flames. Due to the lockout, there was no season and thus no playoff action in 2005. The Wings lost to the Oilers in the first round for the 2006 playoffs. This postseason, they are down 1-0 in the conference semifinals against the San Jose Sharks. In total, the Wings had 7/7 possible playoff appearances. They reached the conference semifinals twice, but lost. The Red Wings reached the Stanley Cup finals once and won the cup.
By comparing the last seven years, the Pistons have had more success in the playoffs. However, if you look at the seasons between 1990 and 2000, the Wings have played significantly better. They missed only one playoff series in 1990, won two Stanley Cup titles, and reached the finals once where they lost to the NJ Devils. In that same timespan, the Pistons missed the playoffs four times, lost in the first round five times, lost in the conference finals once, and won the NBA title in 1990 with the Bad Boys. The Wings obviously have the edge in the 1990s.
What are the ticket prices like?
Unfortunately, I’m really struggling to find ticket prices (for the Pistons) since you can’t look at Ticketmaster for old games.
First round ticket prices for the Wings were $63 (nosebleeds), $68 (standing room only), $81, $99, $126, and $144. Remember, that’s without Ticketmaster’s service charge fees. And that does not include the $15 for parking. During the regular season, the most expensive ticket was $85 and the cheapest was $22.
According to Team Marketing’s report on the fan cost index, the average Wings’ regular season ticket price was $43.13 (which was exactly equivalent to the league average). So the Wings organization is not charging their fans ridiculous prices in the regular season.
It’s a different matter in the postseason. The cheapest playoff ticket is $20 more than their average ticket price in the regular season. Around 2500 season ticket holders had to pass on playoff tickets because they couldn’t afford them. It was either watch the playoffs this year or get season tickets for next year and with the Wings’ recent playoff performances, they chose to watch the 41 regular season home games.
The Pistons’ playoff tickets are in such great demand that they held a lottery for 1000 tickets to the first two games of round one. What was the price of those tickets? $12. Yep, the cheapest Pistons’ playoff ticket was $51 cheaper than the Wings’ cheapest tickets. I would be totally happy if the Wings had 1000 seats for $12. You bet I’d get there in line for that lottery. As a college student, I can afford $12. I could even get friends who don’t watch much hockey to go. Unfortunately, it’s hard to convince friends who are also poor college students to splurge $63 for nosebleed seats especially if they aren’t a hardcore fan. I spent $250 to go to two games.
Fans had to be at the Palace for the lottery, but the team had four players there signing autographs to help pass the time.
Four Pistons - Lindsey Hunter, Jason Maxiell, Nazr Mohammed and Flip Murray - were in the West Atrium signing autographs and taking pictures with ticket buyers on their way to the box office window.
How bad is the Detroit economy?
I know a lot of you non-Michiganders have heard that the Detroit/Michigan economy is poor and probably don’t realize how bad it really is. Between the Big 3 automobile companies (Ford, GM, and Chrysler) cutting jobs and losing money, Pfizer leaving Ann Arbor, and Comerica Bank moving their headquarters, Detroit has hit some rough times. I know personally, my family’s lifestyle has really changed. My parents own their own company and had 65 employees before 9/11. Today they have 14 employees.
Michigan’s unemployment rate is 6.5% (it was closer to 3% before 9/11). The national unemployment rate is 4.4%.
Our poor economy can be seen through the housing market as well and the amount of foreclosures. Plus, our taxes are rising while property values are falling.
Continuing a trend from 2006, metro Detroit posted the highest rate of real estate foreclosures of the nation’s largest 100 metro areas during the first three months of 2007, with one foreclosure filing for every 51 households.
Michigan, which ranked fourth highest among states, saw an increase in foreclosures of nearly 30% from a year ago.
Plus, the future does not look too bright. Graduates from Michigan universities are leaving the state in large numbers.
According to New United Van Lines Data, Michigan tops the nation in 2007 for the rate of outbound moving grads. This means more recent graduates living in Michigan are leaving the state in greater numbers than anywhere else in the country. But what is causing this mass exodus of students? The statistics are startling.
According to a Bizjournal survey, Michigan has topped the nation as the worst economy for prospective job-seekers. Detroit, which ranks 66th overall, is the metro area with the bleakest outlook for workers in their 20s and 30s. The problems besetting domestic automakers, combined with the erosion of Detroit’s manufacturing base, have caused the area to lose 105,100 jobs in the past five years.
Some experts believe that it will take more than a decade for the auto industry to even begin recovering from record losses, leaving students battling for jobs that don’t exist.
I know many Detroit sports fans used to go support multiple Detroit teams especially in the playoffs. However, this poor economy has forced many to make a decision. It seems that these sports fans have gone with the cheaper tickets and more successful teams over the last year (ie. Pistons and the Detroit Tigers, who made it to the World Series last season). Unfortunately, it seems that the Wings are at the bottom of the list and their high ticket prices don’t help.
What do others think?
Reactions to the Wings lack of sellouts by bloggers and members of the media.
Michael Rosenberg’s column in the Detroit Free Press:
Between the second and third periods, I went online to find tickets to Game 2. Just my luck: I could get 12 seats together in Section 225B. Unfortunately, I can’t possibly find 11 friends who want to spend $90 a pop to sit in the corner of the upper level (and pay a $5.75 “convenience charge” for the privilege).
Of course, if my buddies don’t mind standing, they can pay $77 each — plus that same $5.75 convenience charge. (Whoever heard of a convenience charge to stand up?)
I don’t blame people for staying home. People can spend their money however they’d like. It is just too bad that Mike Ilitch has chosen to alienate his fan base like this, by acting like the economy is still thriving and the Wings are still the only winner in town.
In the last few years, we have seen the state unemployment rate rise, the Pistons become one of the best franchises in sports, the Tigers make the World Series, Steve Yzerman retire and the Wings’ payroll drop from almost $78 million in 2004 to $44 million this year. Yet the Wings expect fans to open the checkbook as they did in 2002.
Playoff ticket prices have dropped 10% from their peak, but they remain too high.
The Wings have clearly misjudged the market. And it’s sad, because — all kidding aside — I think a lot of people would jump on this bandwagon if the prices were reasonable.
The Toronto Star:
Maybe Detroit fans are becoming too blasé about a team that just keeps on winning. Maybe it’s the economy – this rust-belt city is taking a big hit due a downturn in the automotive sector. Maybe the ticket prices are too high. It costs $77 US for a standing-room ticket. The empty seats cost $90 US.
Maybe the Pistons and Tigers are just too much competition. And it won’t be an easy sell Saturday with the NFL draft on television at the same time as the hockey game, and fans here wondering who their Lions will pick.
“The state isn’t in a great financial situation, but we just got to go out and play regardless if it’s a sellout or half full,†said Maltby. “The crowd is still into it, and if we could have scored a goal, I don’t think you would have noticed anything.
“If you’re going to let an empty seat throw you off your game or worry you, you’re going to be in trouble. Tickets aren’t cheap and it’s no secret the state of the economy. It’s not just the car business, it’s a whole trickle effect.â€
Wall Street Journal’s The Daily Fix:
Part of the boredom stemmed from a surprisingly sparse, and quiet, Detroit crowd. Michael Rosenberg attempts to remind the city about its once-beloved franchise: “Surely you remember the Red Wings. Hockey team … perennially in the playoffs … the guys like to skate around with the Stanley Cup every few years … does any of this ring a bell?” Mr. Rosenberg writes in the Detroit Free Press. “There were thousands of empty seats at Joe Louis Arena on Thursday. The Wings gave the official attendance as 18,712, but I suspect they meant limbs.”
James Mirtle at Globe on Hockey:
You’re right, Tim — it is sad to see Joe Louis Arena sit partially empty for a playoff game, especially when there was an 11-year sellout streak heading into the game. But it’s also fairly predictable given the way ticket prices were hiked for the playoffs, and the resulting fan backlash online.
Upper-bowl tickets for season-ticket holders nearly doubled for Round 1 from what they were in the regular season, and the team asked for huge sums of cash upfront for the first two rounds of the postseason. Hockey Night in Canada reported around 2,500 season-ticket holders decided against buying the packages, which is 15 to 20 per cent of the team’s (rapidly evaporating) season-ticket holder base.
Last fall, the sudden disappearance of the Red Wings’ longstanding season-ticket waiting list foretold the potential problems at the gate — but it took the price hike for fans to stay away.
If you decide you want to go, tickets are available through the Joe Louis Arena box office or on the Detroit Red Wings website. They range from $63 U.S. to $144. “The problem down here is the economy,†said Devellano. “The auto sector is in the dumper and it’s hard to sell out a 20,000-seat arena when people have to pay their mortgages.â€
On the positive they still have 17,000 season tickets holders and as the team advances in the playoffs the later rounds sell out fast.
But the first round is always a little tougher which creates an opportunity for hockey fans here. “It would be great to see them,†Jimmy said of the Ontario fans.
But the fan enthusiasm that surrounded the Tigers turn-around last season hasn’t spread to the Wings so far, perhaps due in part to the team’s disappointing finishes in recent years.
On Wednesday, several hundred tickets were still available in all price ranges for tonight’s game.
On average, about 174,000 Metro Detroit households are watching the playoff games on FSN Detroit, a 150 percent gain from the regular season, according to Nielsen ratings released by the network.
But that’s a far cry from the frenzy in 2004, when about 250,000 local households were watching the games.
“The excitement is getting there,” said Tim Bryan, a spokesman for FSN Detroit. “There’s definitely more interest that we’re in the playoffs. This is a huge sports town.” …
“We have to decide between Red Wings playoff tickets now, or save up and hope the Tigers make another run for the pennant,” said Rogers, who estimated his family attended a half-dozen hockey games and an equal number of baseball games last year.
“If they go deeper in the playoffs, I’d consider paying for those tickets but not for the early rounds.”
Red Wings ticket sales for the first round against the Calgary Flames were OK, team spokesman John Hahn said, but as the series moved forward, more people started buying tickets for future playoff games.
Dave at Gorilla Crouch:
Rosenberg points out that there is a lot of competition for the attention of Detroit sports fans as every professional sports franchise not named the Detroit Lions has been excellent of late. That, combined with a difficult economic situation in Michigan, is going to force the Red Wings to drop ticket prices if they want to continue to sell out games.
Michael Farber of Sports Illustrated:
The last time the arena seemed this moribund was when Steve Yzerman was barely old enough to shave. Of course, there were no-shows in the stands during the regular season, but unsold tickets and a game presentation Thursday that failed to match the originality and passion that has come to be associated with the Red Wings truly was shocking.
“That was something I wasn’t expecting,” Rivet said. “I looked up in the stands and there was a lot of empty seats there. That’s really uncharacteristic of Detroit.”
The problem is a downturn in the local economy and an upturn in the fortunes of the Tigers, Wings owner Mike Ilitch’s other big sports property. Detroit’s surprising appearance in the World Series in 2006 became an economic drain on the Wings, who are just another competitor for the sports entertainment dollar here. Without being able to ice a lineup of Hall of Fame players circa 1997 and 1998 due to the constraints of a salary cap, some of the Red Wings glitz is gone. Not that the place is about to become the Meadowlands of Michigan, but if Hockeytown wavers, the NHL must be concerned about traditionally softer markets.
Overall
Obviously, I’d love to see the Joe packed and rocking. Unfortunately between the economy, ticket prices, and the increase in people willing to spend their money on other teams (Tigers/Pistons), Red Wings have failed to sell out this postseason. Maybe this will send a message to owner Mike Ilitch to lower playoff tickets for the future.
I honestly don’t know if we will see a change next year. If Ilitch can still sell out a majority of the arena at those high prices, he may make more profit than he would if it was 100% full at cheaper ticket prices. It’s all about making money. I’m also curious to see when the Wings fail to sell out in the regular season. With the season ticket waiting list rapidly dwindling, it seems only a matter of time.
Related Posts
7 Responses to “Analyzing Red Wings’ ticket sales”
Leave a Reply
April 28th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
[…] Christy over at Behind the Jersey has another excellent, must read article on Red Wings ticket prices. I’ll give a couple brief excerpts but it is well worth your time to read the entire article. The Pistons’ playoff tickets are in such great demand that they held a lottery for 1000 tickets to the first two games of round one. What was the price of those tickets? $12. Yep, the cheapest Pistons’ playoff ticket was $51 cheaper than the Wings’ cheapest tickets. I would be totally happy if the Wings had 1000 seats for $12. You bet I’d get there in line for that lottery. As a college student, I can afford $12. I could even get friends who don’t watch much hockey to go. Unfortunately, it’s hard to convince friends who are also poor college students to splurge $63 for nosebleed seats especially if they aren’t a hardcore fan. I spent $250 to go to two games. […]
April 28th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
I suppose this is the real reason why I have never been to a Red Wings game. It’s not like the tickets are hard to come by these days — they’re just far too expensive! Though I have not taken in a Pistons game for a few seasons either, to be fair. While the Palace may sellout every game, while watching games, there are a lot more empty seats than there used to be, as if interest in the team is dying down or fans are becoming arrogant.
April 29th, 2007 at 10:59 am
I am really disappointed in Detroit fans,but equally disappointed in Mike Illich,and the redwing players. We all know we have a GREAT team,we make it to the play-offs every year regardless if we win the cup.I just think that if Mike Illich showed a little appreciation to all the fans by doing something for them,encouraging fans to come back. Offer a lottery for 1000 fans,have some of those players sign autographs and take pics for fans. Give these fans something in return of their support.You want a sel-out crowd then give them something too. I have been in Florida for 12 years,and go to every Detroit/Lightning game played,we stand outside to TRY and get an autograph from one of the players,but they sneak off into there buses and hurry away.Pretty depressing. Now,I have went to Colorado/Det. game in Colorado and recieved( bought an Avs jersey) 8-10 autographs from the Avs. while wearing my redwing jersey. They were pretty cool about it too. You would never see the redwings do that,and just maybe that might be part of the reason R.W. fans have lost their enthusiasm with Detroit Redwings.
Mike Illich, you want fans there cheering your/their team on, give them something to get excited about.
And all these players that have the bighead because their always at the top,show your fans a little appreciation too,stop acting as if you are above giving an autograph to a fan.
I have been trying to get some autographs from players,even sent a banner to the locker room here in Tampa and my brothers jersey with Bob Probert on it,asking could some of the players autograph it in memory of my brother who was killed and he was such a huge fan. But they refused to take that time,and it was sent back to me saying they couldn’t.Instead,as we were leaving the game some fan from Detroit that we were talking to during the game,stoled my brothers jersey from off my waist where it was tied,knowing who’s it was.Is that the kind of team/fans you have up in Detroit???Yet you still call this,”HOCKEYTOWN”,I reall miss my brothers jersey we had it hanging in our garage/gameroom that is done up in Detroit sports,mainly Hockey.
April 29th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
[…] How comes the Pistons still sell out games and the Red Wings don’t? Christy from Behind the Jersey takes a look at that question. Personally, I think ticket prices have a lot to do with it, but I’m also not convinced the Pistons’ sell-out streak is 100% legit — there were a lot of empty seats in the regular season, with tickets on the after-market available below face value. […]
April 30th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
[…] One thing that is most interesting and has been an issue for Detroit and New Jersey in particular is that attendance for many teams has not reached capacity. The implication of this is that the numbers above in these circumstances is overestimated, so revenue for Detroit and New York should be taken with an added grain of salt. This also raises an interesting question, and the subject of another discussion, of why the NHL is having trouble selling tickets to playoff hockey. One would think that Detroit of all places would back the house. Apparently, not so. For a great analysis on what is going on in Detroit, check out Behind the Jersey. […]
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:42 am
As a 20 year season ticket holder, I had to give up my playoff tickets. You are required to purchase the first two rounds at a time. If the Wings don’t go far in the playoff run, your ticket money is held and either used as a down payment for the next season or you wait a month or two for you money. By that time, the next season’s money is due by the time you get your refund. I have enjoyed quite of bit of hockey during the lean years, but Ilitch doesn’t make it easy for the season ticket holders. I elected to watch the playoffs at home because I feel the prices are just out of line. Eventually, I will give these tickets up. It was much fun when the Stevie was around the time the Wings were building a Stanley Cup team. I was able to see most of the teams in the league including the Original Six. But again, who wants to see Nashville or Columbus 6 times during the season. The game has also changed, scoring is down and the game is a little boring. Lets face it. It is a business but, for Wing fans we are taken advantage of.
May 12th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
[…] Though JLA was at over 99% capacity for game one of the Conference Finals, ticket sales have not been so stellar thus far. No playoff game has sold out to date, likely due to a combination of prices starting at $60, a loss of hockey interest, and a slumping Michigan economy. By contrast, the Pistons have sold out every last one of their home games, both regular and post-season, for quite some time, even with a larger arena. Is the product delivered in the Palace of Auburn Hills really that much more entertaining than the Red Wings? Of course not, but there are small sections of seats at Pistons playoff games available for under $20, so the marketing staff has a better grip on reality. Though it should be noted that there are usually plenty of visibly open and unoccupied seats at most Pistons games. It seems acquiring Red Wings tickets is no longer as difficult as it is costly, which truly is a shame, not only because of the solid product on the ice, but also because many of these games are being televised on cable-only networks (that means you, Versus!), thus unavailable to a large portion of the public. […]